Stop & Talk

Grant Oliphant 0:00
Hey, Crystal

Crystal Page 0:11
how are you today?

Grant Oliphant 0:13
I am terrific. We're going to be sharing an interview with Richard Tate, who is a colleague of ours, President and CEO of the Cal Wellness Foundation, California Wellness Foundation, and a different kind of interview for us, because we're we're usually interviewing grantees in our community. This is a fellow traveler on the road of doing philanthropy well, and we've been very impressed by Richard, and we really wanted to get him on the program to talk about what he's trying to do.

Crystal Page 0:46
Agreed, yeah, his voice on LinkedIn, his voice out in the community, and just the way they represent themselves in all their messaging and branding, about being for the people, thinking about the future of our healthcare is super inspiring. So I can't wait to hear what you two talk about.

Grant Oliphant 1:02
Let's dive in and we'll talk at the back end. Sounds good. Richard Tate, thank you so much for joining me here.

Richard Tate 1:12
Pleasure to be here, Grant Oliphant.

Grant Oliphant 1:14
it is a it is a joy, actually, to get to speak to you. I maybe before we dive in, let me just ask you, for our listeners who may be less familiar with Cal wellness, would you tell us a little bit about the California Wellness Foundation and what we need to know about it?

Richard Tate 1:35
Happy to the California Wellness Foundation is a statewide health foundation we've been operating for almost 35 years, and we have a broad definition of health and wellness as our name implies, where you live, where you work, your access to a good job, all determine your ability to live healthy and well. We have a billion dollar endowment. We make more than $50 million in grants every year across the state, and we really see our work as at the intersection of health and racial justice. We know that race and racism continue to be one of the biggest barriers to health and wellness in our country.

Grant Oliphant 2:13
I think it's important for us to call call that out, because the the mission of Cal wellness, because in some ways it tracks so closely with how the Prebys foundation interprets public health and the work we do in the healthcare and even the medical research space, where you can't look at health, human health, in isolation. You have to look at it in the context of what makes for a healthy life and all of the factors that go into influencing it, and you've been very strategic in doing that with that as your sole focus and statewide, yes, so you and I, you and I had this opportunity To really get to know each other a little bit when I was asked to moderate a panel of new leaders in philanthropy at the USC center for philanthropy, and I guess I was the old leader interviewing the new leaders, and which is a humbling moment, but you were outstanding, and you in at that session. You know, you were still relatively new in your role. I think you've only been in this role for two years, right? And you've obviously-

Richard Tate 3:32
two years in September

Grant Oliphant 3:35
And I'm curious to know, at this point, almost two years in what do you feel are the big lessons for you so far in terms of leading a foundation like the one you're leading?

Richard Tate 3:50
Grant? I remember the event well. It was new leaders in philanthropy. The folks on the stage other than yourself, were all first time CEOs. I think that was the difference. You're relatively new at Prebys, but you've got a long track record.

Grant Oliphant 4:06
You are such a diplomat. Well, thank you though.

Richard Tate 4:09
But just to be clear, because to answer your question, I'm a first time CEO, and it's a different job. I think I came into the role with some expectation that the job would be different, but in retrospect, not fully appreciating what a unique challenge and opportunity it is to be the CEO at a major foundation. The challenges are that you really are steering an institution, and when you're working inside an organization, you have visibility to the constituencies and the stakeholders that foundations prioritize in their work community, the board as a partner to the work that's happening, the partnerships beyond the institution that are important to the work. Yeah, but the CEO is really a vector for all of those interests, and I have appreciated that it is a challenge, but also an opportunity. There's great power and influence in the CEO position, and I don't take that lightly. I've just appreciated in the time that I have been leading the foundation. How critical leadership is in the world. I'm a big believer that you can lead from whatever position that you're in, but it is true that folks who have the CEO seat in major foundations institutions have an outsized obligation and opportunity to lead, to really be visible, to be courageous. That has been a huge insight for me, in part because the times have really shown us that it can be a scary time to lead the world is more polarized than it was when I first stepped into the CEO seat, speaking out on certain issues and topics has become a real challenge, and yet, when we think about our values, both our human values, the things that inspire us to do the work that we do, and we think about our institutional values, now more than ever, we should be speaking out and taking a stand for the work that we do And the people that we represent. So I've learned a lot about really fully occupying the seat that you're in. I happen to be in a CEO seat right now, and I am actually feeling good about the California Wellness Foundation, my role, what I'm learning and how the sector is moving right now.

Grant Oliphant 6:43
Well, there's so much to unpack there, and we're basically going to spend the next almost hour unpacking it. But I, you know, I think it was a very eloquent statement of what it looks like to lead at the moment. And that actually was what struck me when we were on the panel together. You know, you have a way of of talking about the work that is almost poetic. Like me. You you quote poetry so you know, there you're you're clearly inspired by multiple sources of and and look to the broader world for guidance and for input. But back then, and even much more so now, you were talking about why it was important for foundations to provide leadership and to be outspoken in a way that maybe historically, you hadn't seen them do, and you just alluded to that now, so I'd love to take that as our jumping off point. You said something that I found curious, which is that you feel good about it, and we should. We should try and tease that apart too, but talk about why, why you think this is a different moment, and what that means for the leadership that foundations can and can't provide,

Richard Tate 8:07
the world has just become more complex and divisive in many ways. And I think what's different and what's being called upon us differently is for us to really be clear about where we're willing to take a stand and speak out. I think for most of my time in philanthropy, it has been the case that foundations, as institutions, organizations, haven't really been required to be vocal and visible about the work. There's been a mantra that we let the work speak for itself, or we, we let our grantees lead. And on the one hand, it's so important for folks who are closest to the communities and the work that's being being done every day, to be in leadership positions, to be in positions of influence and control over how money is flowing to support that work, about decisions that are made, about how communities are being supported. But it is also the case that foundations have a lot of influence and resource that could be deployed against our missions that many of us aren't taking best advantage of and this moment is telling us that we need to be using all the tools that we have in order to move the issues that we want to see change in the world. So what does that mean? It means that beyond grant dollars, we can and should be using our voice. Folks do pay attention to where foundations choose to spend their money, not only in grant making, but increasingly in how we spend our endowment assets, where we put our market rate investments as institutions that are committed to the public good. What are we funding? On the endowment side, we can and should be. Using our relationships.

Richard Tate 10:01
It's true that foundation CEOs like you and me, or foundation staffers in general, have access to spaces, conversations, meetings with leaders in business and in the government and public sectors that many of our grant partners aren't invited to be part of, and we need to be using that access and that influence to its best effect. It means that we can be a voice for communities and our nonprofit partners, but it also means that we can speak to our values when the times arise, and this is one of those times we're just facing unprecedented threats to values based work around diversity, equity and inclusion, we're being challenged on fundamental freedoms to give to the causes and to the organizations that we care about, to support the communities that we believe are in greatest needs, and to even Assemble and speak out and use our voice as citizens around issues that we care about, not only citizens residents, regardless of your legal status. So these are the ways that I think the world has shifted around us that are calling upon foundations to mobilize more than just our grant making dollars to meet the moment.

Grant Oliphant 11:18
So you and I are both members of an of a collaborative called unite in advance, that is a group of foundations who believe basically precisely what you just described. And we believe that the right of foundations to be able to give where they think they need to give and support the values that they believe in is fundamental to the value of this sector in American society. And so we are, as a group, fighting for the right to for philanthropic freedom, but we're also fighting for the right for foundations to support and to continue to lean into tough social issues, like as as you mentioned, the racial equity lens that you take in your healthcare work. How have you internalized that message in figuring out where are the right places for California Wellness to step out and provide leadership, and how do you weigh those moments against others where maybe it might not be as helpful or appropriate

Richard Tate 12:30
grant? I think I hear two parts of your question. One is about this effort that we're connected with, and the trend, more generally, for foundations to be organizing and to be working in coalition together. And then the second is, how do we make choices about when and how we speak out that's great, either as a collective or as an institution. Well, the unite in advance work has been really curious and really inspiring to me curious, because it very quickly became an organized effort that I had never experienced before. In Foundation Philanthropy, we've all talked about partnerships and coordinated funding as foundation leaders in the past, and there's something terrific. There's been some terrific work that's happened in that way. But the whole concept of United advance, which was born out of our witnessing university leaders, leaders of law firms, suddenly find themselves on the defensive in the face of very targeted tax to attacks on how they operate. So the whole idea that we would come together to try to organize and partner, not just to collaborate on something, but to get very clear about where our points of alignment are, despite our different missions, despite our different operating environments, in terms of geographic scope and reach, to really think about what are the fundamentals of philanthropy and foundation. Philanthropy that we want to protect just as almost anything that we rely on in terms of our civil society and our freedoms is under attack. What has been inspiring to me about how that has come together is that folks have been willing to set aside their individual focus areas and missions, not because that's not how we anchor our work, but because we were being called upon to align us some very basic principles. The promise of that group, I believe, is still ahead of us. We've had some early wins, if you will. I think the organizing that we did around some threats to the foundation sector, around increased tax rates, at least demonstrates that we're able to organize and advocate when threats are upon us. But I would love to see us, as you alluded, to really organize around the issues. Communities that intersect with what our grant partners and our communities are struggling with every day, the increasing threats and the demonization to immigrant neighbors and communities, the ways in which we're seeing not only public health, but our system of health care in this country being demolished right in front of our eyes. I'd love to see this group continue to organize, and again, to continue to be strategic about how we lift our voice and use our influence around specific issues. And it's a challenge. It's a diverse group of organizations, but this is the harder work of organizing. What we need right now are not individual heroic leaders. We need connected leaders, and that's what unite in advance is offering us. I'm thrilled to be a part of that with

Richard Tate 15:48
you.

Grant Oliphant 15:49
By the way, I want to acknowledge Tanya Allen and John Palfrey and others who were involved in that, because they have provided so much inspiration for the rest of us in doing exactly what you just described as being connected leaders and collective leaders. It's a, it's a beautiful, beautiful way of saying it. Yeah. So on the second question, the question of, I mean, you use language elsewhere, about stepping out with courage and and so this, this issue of how you as an individual foundation CEO, make the decision about when it is important for you and your organization to step out with courage. What goes into that for you?

Richard Tate 16:35
Well, I'll tell you a little bit of a story, because it's not that I sit at my desk and pick and choose when and how we speak out, and I started my career as a communications professional. I believe deeply in the role of voice in communications, in social change work. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't moments where I question if and how we speak out. And you know, after the start of the second Trump administration, as we started to see the ways in which the administration was really targeting individuals institutions, it became a frightening moment to think about speaking out. For me, I went to an event, the Confluence and Confluence philanthropy gathering in San Francisco earlier this year. I think it was in early March, and at that time, we were watching what was happening with Columbia. We saw what was beginning to happen with law firms, and we'd already seen the anti dei executive order, and I remember standing on the stage giving welcoming remarks, saying things that even three months prior, I would not have thought twice about 70% of our grant dollars go to organizations that are led by women or people of color. Why? Because we know that those organizations are historically underfunded. Why? Because we know that those leaders represent the communities that they are serving, and the data tells us those are the communities that are at greatest need, but suddenly standing on stage and saying that felt risky. And so I had a whole journey at the beginning of the year around not only when and how do we speak out, but what are the risks of speaking out? And that was new to me. And so part of what I did, and part of what I think is important for all of us to do is to think beyond ourselves and to think about who are we representing, what our institutions are about, what do we stand for, and how do we make sure that we are working together, that we are connected in making the decisions about when and how we use our voice. So I went into a meeting with my board of directors, and we sort of put on the table, what is it that how do we want to show up in this moment? We did a bit of an exercise, and we talked about risk, we talked about the opportunity costs of being more visible in the work, and a couple of things emerged. One is that we happen to be an institution that has long valued public communications in the way that we talk about and move the issues that we care about so suddenly, changing course and getting quiet wasn't going to minimize our risk. It's just part of who we were, and our analysis is that the moment was calling on us to take more risk at the time we hadn't appreciated but now we know that nonprofit partners, folks we fund, are being targeted. They are receiving congressional oversight letters. They are being named in the media as folks who people are questioning for the role that they play in doing the legal, vital work of organizing and. Civic engagement, but they are being targeted. They are the ones who really are facing the greatest risk we and foundations can and should be stepping forward to take on that risk, to speak boldly and proudly about the folks that we fund. And so that was another part of the conversation with the board, and we decided very definitively that we were willing to take on that risk, not only would we continue to do the work that we do being explicit about the connection between health and racial justice, but that would we would be willing to speak on behalf of our partners if and when they were the target of attacks, and that generated a statement that we put forward that was important to us so that our partners knew where we stood. We titled it we shall not be moved after the great,

Grant Oliphant 20:48
beautiful piece, beautiful piece,

Richard Tate 20:51
but it was really just a statement of values and how we wanted to show up in this moment, and how we wanted to be held accountable by our partners, by our other stakeholders. But the statement really anchored us at a period where there really for me, for others, there was some fear in speaking out, so that has become the platform on which we continue to speak. How do we choose when any one of us is attacked, a grant partner, a peer organization that is an attack on all of us, and so we have tried to be diligent about speaking out when our grant partners are being targeted in big and small ways, whether that's reaching out directly to connect with our partners, one to one to check in with them, whether that's public statements, whether that's going to places like Unite In Advance and saying, Hey, this is happening. Are you aware? I get it. You're an arts funder, but here in Los Angeles, we are dealing with some disturbing evolution of the attacks on civil society. How can we be working together to make sure that we are all holding the line and advancing health and wellness for all

Grant Oliphant 21:59
so, you know, I think it's probably important to point out for folks who don't know this field so well, that when you talk about the risks and it being scary, the risks are real. We know that the administration is willing to exact reprisals for people being too outspoken about values they don't agree with, especially in the racial equity space. We know that to be true at this stage, and they control the key to the existence of the foundation sector in terms of their nonprofit status and ability to function as part of civil society. And we've also seen a willingness on the part of the administration to go after the entire nonprofit community that we fund. So on multiple levels, there are pieces in play where it fee, it can feel like we are vulnerable, and we're made more vulnerable by raising our heads above the parapet, if you will. And I really appreciate the filter that you've begun to use and articulate, that you go where you're, where your voice is needed. So if your grantees are being attacked, you speak up about that. If the values you think are especially important, you you speak up about about the importance of those and why they shouldn't be attacked, and why they are worthy of defending. I'm wondering, have you had, have you had prior examples of this that you've turned to as you've navigated this last year, last couple of years, or do you have current heroes that you're being inspired by in this work? And if so, who are they?

Richard Tate 23:51
Well, let's talk about prior heroes. This is a moment where I believe many of us have thought about generations past, who have done, I would say the harder, riskier work of speaking out. I'm talking about the Civil Rights Movement. I'm talking about the movement for reparations after Japanese internment. I'm talking about the farm worker movement. These are times where people took on real risk, threats to their physical well being. It's a scary moment. Let's be real. There are folks who are right now under physical threat, but I think the scale and scope is different than it was. But I think back to those times, because

Richard Tate 24:36
many of us in the current generation, generations living now have benefited from folks who are willing to take on that risk. Were literally willing to put their lives on the line, standing in front of fire hose hoses and standing in front of attack dogs. If those folks could do that, if they could be that courageous, I can speak out, because someone got a congressional oversight letter. And I do that not just because it's important, but because I want to encourage and inspire others, not only to speak out, but be willing to take action. It's the first step toward meaningful action to continue to do the work that is required to protect our civil liberties and our rights in this country. So these past movements inspire me every day.

Richard Tate 25:28
My parents, who lived through civil rights and labor organizing, they inspire me every day. And I think many of us have been reminded of those who have gone before us. In the health space. I'm reminded you know in this moment that the legislation that passed Medicaid was, in some ways, civil rights legislation. The history of Medicaid is that it desegregated many hospitals and healthcare institutions. And that's the kind of history and legacy of work that's inspiring to me right now, current heroes, folks who are speaking out, I have to give a lot of credit to Rich Besser at the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, who, within the very early days of the new administration reaffirmed that the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation was committed to its public declaration that race and racism were public health issues, and was very clear about the risks and threats that we would be facing under the new administration, and his willingness to speak out clearly, speak out consistently. And here's the thing, to take action in addition to that work, what do I mean? Didn't just issue a statement. Rich has given interviews. They've funded work. They've been leaders in some of the organizing work that you and I have alluded to. It's an example of a leader being willing to go outside of their comfort zone, to shift and pivot the way that they move as a CEO in the space in order to meet the moment. And that's inspiring to me. I think you can probably relate. It's a moment where it's like, Hmm, what is the job of the CEO right now? And here's you mentioned this earlier. You know, why do we Why do we take on risk? It is so easy for us to just sit in our offices, behind our desks, in many ways, no one, no one would really criticize us for that. Well, we might get some criticism now, but it's usually been a pretty safe space for foundation CEOs. So the question becomes, Wow, am I really going to take this on? Yeah, let's face it, if we've got a grant partner like the black freedom Fund, which is an organization here in California that we fund and support, they have a community centered in their work and in their name. They can't hide, right? They can't hide. I could hide behind my desk, behind the California Wellness Foundation name, but that is not what this moment calls us for. So that's the piece that is about analyzing risk, but also being courageous. And again, I don't want to minimize what folks who are working every day in communities are facing, but I do want to remind those of us who sit in relative comfort and privilege that this is the time for us to push outside of our comfort zones.

Grant Oliphant 28:27
I love that answer, and thank you for that. Mentioning rich besser reminds me that part of what he has done so effectively is explain why race and racism were in their target zone to begin with. And he didn't just say, No, we're going to stay the course to your point. He vigorously defended it by explaining that they are, in fact, public health challenges, and then describing the ways in which they affect public health outcomes. Contrast that with the speed with which so many other institutions across our society have basically abandoned the field on those issues because of relentless pressure coming out of Washington just describing that as no longer legitimate. Have you been surprised by how quickly that reversal happened, and has it made you more thoughtful about how you lean into those issues in the public health space, in your work at Cal wellness,

Richard Tate 29:39
more thoughtful, yes, in that the way that we've operated at the foundation and in the public space generally, I think, over the last decade, has been rooted in the data and the facts that Rich has been bringing forward about health outcomes. Which we've all talked about in the past, but I think many of us, particularly here in California, got quite comfortable that that analysis that depending on your race and your zip code, you have different health outcomes. That was a given. We just assumed that everyone understood the data, the information, they believed it, and we were operating from that that place of alignment. Facts, data, information, have been devalued and dismissed under the current administration, and so suddenly we're having to be even more thoughtful about reminding ourselves that these aren't just ideologies. These are evidence based scientific assessments of what is needed to improve the health and wellness for all. We know that when we address these particular communities who are at greatest risk, we benefit the health and wellness of everyone in our communities. So it has been a moment to remind ourselves of the logic map, the science, the data, the information that really has led us to this analysis that racial justice is essential to health and wellness. So that's one piece in terms of my surprise. Surprise, not surprised. My surprise is that many of us myself included, had to wake up to the fact that, as I just described, we had been moving pretty quickly on what we thought was solid ground, and I was surprised that we needed to reset the foundation of how we need to work. Not surprised that a lot of the efforts that we saw moving in the world the DEI movement, even that language, I think at times, had been used in a way that was superficial, perhaps not truly aligned with the intentions of the values of principles of equity, simply launching a corporate training and requiring your 10,000 employees to sit in a meeting for two hours once a year. That's not not a lot of equity work, right? And that's the piece that not surprised that a lot of that got pulled back. People wanted to scrub the websites because the practice of equity was never something that had been fully embraced or applied in an authentic or meaningful way. So we've got more work to do. That is the bottom line. We're not pulling back from talking about why diversity is beneficial to outcomes, for teams, institutions, for communities, but when it comes to doing equity work, we need to think differently about how we continue to embed that and how we analyze our own operations, and how we support partners to re engage and recommit to this work.

Grant Oliphant 32:49
One of the ways in which you have decided to manifest courage in response to this environment is to dig deeper into the foundation's resources and give more at this moment, and like, like many of us are doing or have done, I'm curious, can you just tell us a little bit about the decision you made and why you made it?

Richard Tate 33:12
Well, one, I just believe this is the time to spend up and speak out. As I've been saying,

Grant Oliphant 33:17
we have to speak out part, but the spend out part-

Richard Tate 33:21
Yeah, let's, let's talk about spending up. So you know, for for those of us who understand the wonky, technical side of foundations, we often get caught up in the the spend down conversation, the the 5% payout rule conversation, and for those folks who don't know these are these are the IRS requirements for maintaining our nonprofit status, how we spend at least 5% of our asset values in any given cycle. And most foundations have operated giving the minimum 5% Cal wellness has long for since pre covid, spent beyond 5% we have been since 2020 at about 7% spending. But we did decide to push that even further this year, because the community needs call for it. It's a thoughtful analysis on our side, not only about how we steward the resources of the foundation, the billion dollar endowment that we have, but also what the need for the community is in any given year or at any given time. And this was just a moment where we clearly needed to spend more, not just because of the defunding of issues that we've long invested in, but also because now is the moment to be investing in folks who are now not only navigating chaos, but starting to think about how to rebuild. In this moment, we need to be funding folks coming together, rethinking priorities and continuing to build out the charitable infrastructure that really drives innovation, drives research, drives the parts of civil society that really allow us to thrive, certainly on the health care side, thinking about how communities are organizing to make sure people still have access to health care after the devastation of this recent legislation and the cuts to Medicaid, that's why spending now is more important than ever. I personally believe that this conversation around, are we spending down is a distraction. We are in these seats for a finite period of time. The question is, what are we doing now to make the change that we want to see in the world, let's spend up. Let's have the hard conversations, and let's work from where we are. I am thrilled for foundations who are at 5% to be pushing themselves to 6% if you're at 8% go to 10% maybe you're a family foundation that launched two years ago, and suddenly you're like, Let's spend it all now. I applaud that. Now is the time to be spending up and speaking out.

Grant Oliphant 36:09
I think we need to put you on the road to share that message far and wide and say,

Richard Tate 36:15
I think I'm doing it

Grant Oliphant 36:17
you are right now it's I love the twinning together, two of those concepts. And I, I agree. You know, it's, it's interesting for me. I This is the first period in my career as a foundation CEO where I have strongly endorsed a significant increase in payout for precisely the reasons that you just said, and I think your way of saying it is incredibly powerful, and thank you for being a leader in that space too.

Richard Tate 36:49
Oh, Grant, can I ask you a question?

Grant Oliphant 36:51
Yeah, absolutely. Turn about is fair play. It is allowed.

Richard Tate 36:57
because I'm so curious. I mean, you just acknowledge that on the payout issue and spending you maybe had a different point of view for much of your career. So tell me a little bit about what your mindset was previously, and then, yeah, what?

Grant Oliphant 37:10
So I so I had a different point of view for two reasons, and it was particular to my organizations, not a it wasn't a uniform rule for the field, but for the organizations that I was privileged to lead. I was working in Pittsburgh, which was an environment where the supposition that new philanthropy will always come along to replace old philanthropy had not been true for 50 years. So and I had seen that philanthropy played the critical role in helping sustain the community during a period when, effectively, the city died. So it was clear in that context that trying to maintain these resources for the long haul was really important, and that, I think place does have a different effect when you when you introduce the element of place, not, you know, philanthropy is lumpy. It's not uniformly distributed around the country. So you have to acknowledge that the second, the second reason was that I've been around long enough to have seen at least half a dozen or more existential crises come and go, and the argument in every single one has been now is the moment where we should spend everything in order to make the difference that we want to make. And so when you've seen enough of those come and go, you begin to realize that you also want to keep enough powder to face the next one. So I was concerned about that. What's changed for me now is this just feels like a radically different challenge, that the scope and size of the challenge that is coming at us is economic, financial, cultural, social, environmental. It's, you know, every on almost every front the things that we fund, we're encountering a burning platform. And to your point, there is critical infrastructure that is being disassembled that may take a generation or more to be reassembled, and it is being done with real malice. So given that, it calls for a different response, but that's the answer to the question. Thank you for asking me.

Richard Tate 39:32
No, it's so helpful to hear that, because it you know, it reminds me, I mean, I just want to be really transparent with you and with folks that this is a very active conversation in my institution as well. You know, we're not spending it all, and we have very healthy conversations around the value of institutions like you described, what is the purpose in the long term of an institution? An institution like the California Wellness Foundation is. There value to knowing that in California there's an organization that will stand for health and racial justice for the coming generations. That's a legitimate question to me. And these are unprecedented times, right? So we're not at 30% then this year,

Grant Oliphant 40:21
to your point 8.5 right to your point. You're not trying to liquidate your I mean, you're not doing this with that intent. You're You're, you're focusing on the now and and I think that's appropriate in these circumstances. I do believe that it is in the long term interest of California for your foundation, with its orientation to continue to play the unique role that it does in this state. But that's a that's a different conversation we can have when we do that podcast. I but let's talk about healthcare for a moment, because I and you know, the the fallout from the President's signature legislation is looking to be catastrophic in terms of its impact on Medicaid in this state, Medi Cal, the impact in terms of access to healthcare and a whole host of cascading effects flowing from that, including, including, as we discussed just the other day, concerns about basic needs and how those are going to be met. When you look at this situation that we're in where entire systems are being disassembled and find and and the cuts that are coming down from the federal government are of a scale that clearly philanthropy can't hope to make them up. Where do you think foundations ought to be focusing their dime so that they're having the most effect to protect public health and and to protect access to health care.

Richard Tate 42:08
It's it's truly disturbing what we're going to be navigating over the next decade. You know, the trillion dollars in cuts to Medicaid to fund tax benefits for the wealthy is really putting us in a position where, as you said, we're having to really wrestle with how we support basic needs of people in our communities in California, where Medi Cal has been an example of how we can expand access to health care and health care services, and not just formal healthcare, but behavioral health and the other kinds of caregiving and supports that people need. That expansion has put us at even greater risk in the face of these cuts, but we can be daunted, but we need also to be undeterred from figuring a way forward. We've demonstrated that we can do this, and we need to think about how we pivot and rebuild and rethink the ways that we're going to continue our commitment to ensure that everyone has the resources and the access that they need to live healthy and well. So what does that mean? Where is our money best spent? It's a tough question, because I think right now we in particular, is a foundation that does a balance of direct services funding. We do about half of our work, which is direct services funding, and half of our work tends to be policy advocacy, organizing work. For me right now, I have to say that any foundation that cares about health and wellness. Actually, it's any issue that you care about, investing in community organizing and community voice, investing in advocacy work so that people and the needs and issues that people in communities care about are visible and considered in the decisions that are being made that govern their lives is more critical than ever, and that work has been happening for many years. There are foundations who have been invested we have been in thinking about civic engagement as a critical component of creating a healthy civil society or advancing policies that support the kind of work that we believe people need to live healthy and well, but now more than ever, we're seeing the erosion of democratic freedoms and principles, and that goes back to leadership. Who are we putting into these positions of influence and control? We're seeing it play out right now here in California, where we've got local elected leaders who are themselves being targeted by the Federal Administration, those the folks that we've said we want to lead us and we need to be thinking about who we are putting into leadership positions. But at its most basic, it's about giving communities voice and supporting democracy. So for me. Be even as a health foundation focusing on community voice, civic engagement and democratic freedom, that is what we need to be investing in, both the infrastructure and the nonprofits that do that work, and as I said, raising our voice and speaking out alongside the work that folks are doing in community,

Grant Oliphant 45:18
I completely agree with that answer, and love that answer. I'm curious to know what you're hearing from the nonprofits on the ground, and how you're how you're thinking about how to empower them, help them navigate these very challenging times. Obviously, you can't fill the gap that everyone is experiencing in terms of the funding cuts. But what are you hearing from them, and how are you thinking about how to be helpful?

Richard Tate 45:48
I'm hearing a little bit of what you and I have been talking about, although I believe they've been on a more accelerated path chaos, experiencing the chaos in the sense of overwhelm, fear and anxiety about the well being and safety of their communities, the long term prospects for their organizations and the networks that they've developed. But I'm also hearing resolve, and I'm beginning to hear this real commitment and passion for thinking about how to rebuild. What is next? How do we walk through the chaos and the fear and move toward solidarity, staying connected, rebuilding and working together? And I've been parts of part of several conversations where folks are saying, you know, the infrastructure is gone. Public health as we know it is a thing of the past. We have to rethink what that will look like. So for me, beginning to think about how we support those conversations folks who are in that mindset of how to rebuild, not how to turn the dial back, we certainly need to protect the gains that we have made, but it may look different than we enjoyed two, 3, 10, years ago. Some of this work is going to be about rebuilding. So I'm hearing that people are determined, and I'm that's that's the thing that I'm moving toward. That's the thing that I want to support. To your point, no foundation, philanthropy is not going to step in and replace government funding, but what we can do, and which we what we do well, is to support the ideas, particularly the ones that are rooted in community, about how we build and how we move forward.

Grant Oliphant 47:38
So I'm you partially just answered this question, but I'm gonna push you on it anyway. What is giving you hope right now, and the temptation in a moment like this is to hunker down in a defensive crouch, and we've been talking a lot about the things that express that, where we're talking about how to defend ourselves and or how to defend the sector and how to hold the line on certain values. But you, in talking about the nonprofits that you're dealing with, you just mentioned that some of them are beginning to reimagine a different future, which is the first, you know, it's the first sign of spring coming, right that that begins to happen. But where are you finding signs of hope right now?

Richard Tate 48:24
Yeah, it's,

Grant Oliphant 48:25
or is it too soon?

Richard Tate 48:26
One, I have to acknowledge, no, it's not too soon. There's so many things that. One, I just have to come clean. I just, by nature, am a positive person. That is just what I bring to the world.

Grant Oliphant 48:39
They might have gotten a hint of that and listening to you talk,

Richard Tate 48:44
but I have been challenged by that over the course of my life and in my career and in this moment, the because it's connected to I think what I have learned and hold as a deeper value, which is hope. So positivity is important, and we all like positive people, people who see opportunities. I've learned to appreciate healthy skepticism. But to your point, it is heavy to be hunkered down all the time, and this moment that is a perfectly reasonable response to want to just hunker down, batten down the hatches, lay low and hope that this too shall pass. The deeper value, not just positivity, you know, pretending like things are okay, or trying to see the bright side, but that deeper value of hope.

Richard Tate 49:34
Hope is about that deeper connection to what makes us resilient as human beings, and in moments like this, that is what I'm connecting with. To your point when I see people who, in their own course, are moving through the sense of overwhelm and chaos and fear and beginning to tap into that deeper human reserve of hope and aspiration. And the ability to dream about what the next, what might be next, that's the thing that inspires me. And it's one of my personal leadership values to hold on to hope. And so what gives me hope? History gives me hope. In the course of human history, not only in this country, but around the world, to your point, generations have faced existential crises, threats from folks who want to oppress or prevent them from achieving the things that they want in their life, and people have persevered and survived and thrived. We will do that again. That gives me hope.

Richard Tate 50:35
Community partners every day who are reaching out and saying, hey, I want you to come and be part of this conversation, because the way that we were working before, it's not going to work the way that we need it to moving forward. So are you willing to have that conversation? Let go of the fact that you're a funder and I'm a grantee. Let's just talk about what we see in the world and what needs to happen to move forward. That gives me hope people who are willing to push boundaries and get out of their lanes to think about what what is happening moving forward. And I am seeing hope every day, even as I read headlines, I think people in this country are beginning to wake up to the fact that what they may have envisioned as the new world under this new administration is not what they bargained for. This isn't what we really wanted. Many of us wanted change. Many of us wanted fundamental change the way that our government and some of our bureaucracies were functioning. This is not necessarily how we wanted it to happen, and I think people are waking up to the fact that we need to re engage and begin to build together toward what we really want for the future. That gives me hope. Yeah,

Grant Oliphant 51:48
beautiful answer. And I this time is sped by where we've run out of time. We're already it's crazy. But I, you know, I have to say, Richard, you are, you are a positive person, but you're so clear in it, that you're so clear as to why, and the connection with your own personal story, your parents, the way you talk about history, your understanding of history, what previous generations have gone through, and I think your willingness to acknowledge even now just that, yeah, a lot of people thirsted for change, but this isn't what they were thirsting for. You are a source of hope for many of us too. So I just want to thank you that and honor you for for playing that role. It is a delight to be able to talk with you in this conversation. I'm so sorry we're out of time, because I know I could keep going.

Richard Tate 52:52
Well, Grant, grant, the feeling is mutual. I find you to be a bright spot in the philanthropic landscape here in California, we've got a lot of terrific folks, and to have you come and lead Prebys and be part of our California community of foundations is really inspiring to me. You've been very generous, including inviting me to have this conversation with you. And I know you're a big believer and advocate in speaking out and voice and communications in general. So I just want to acknowledge just the work of this podcast. And if folks like my communications director, Mary Lou Fulton, you and I have committed to having teams who are helping us think about communications and voice and Foundation Philanthropy that is vital strategic work, and I would love to see that continue, both at Prebys and Wellness and elsewhere. So shout out to Mary Lou Fulton on my team, the folks on your team, really appreciate the time.

Grant Oliphant 53:45
Yeah. So I will shout out to Crystal Page at my end and her incredible team and and just say it's an honor to be here in in California doing this work. There's a lot to do, but I am inspired by the people we get to do it with. So thank you so much, Richard,

Richard Tate 54:03
we're connected. In it together.

Grant Oliphant 54:05
yeah, I love that. All right, thanks, man, thank you

Grant Oliphant 54:08
so crystal. I'm curious what struck you.

Crystal Page 54:15
Let's start with the fact that you two work together on that USC roundtable about new leaders, I feel hopeful. If those are the type of new leaders we're getting in the world, in philanthropy and social social justice, all those kinds of work, I I'm hopeful.

Grant Oliphant 54:36
Yeah. So the Richard Tate who showed up here is precisely the Richard Tate, who showed up at that USC roundtable, and I think he does embody a new type of leadership approach in philanthropy, I was struck really by how eloquently he talks about the importance of collaborative, aligned leadership in philanthropy. Philanthropy. That's not something that philanthropy has traditionally had or bred. And for him to call that out and recognize it was I, you know, one of a very important takeaway for me, also the eloquent way he talks about courage and continuing to fight for the values and the organizations that they support because it's the right thing to do and because it's essential to the work they do in the in the in the health and wellness space. Very powerful, clear through line around his work and his values. And I so appreciated that about the interview,

Crystal Page 55:41
absolutely, you're reminding me of the visual metaphor when he talked about we could stay behind the desk and no one would blame us, but that's not what this moment's for. And I love that, because I know he does that. You're always out in community, and I think there's a lot of it, but maybe we're not as aware, because we're not looking at LA or statewide or whatever, but I just want to acknowledge folks like Richard and you. I appreciate because when you step beyond your desk, all the rest of us do as well.

Grant Oliphant 56:12
Yeah, well, thank you for that. I think Richard nailed this, this idea, when he talked about how other people that we care about can't hide, and therefore we have a responsibility and an obligation not to either. And he's 100% correct that there would be no penalty for foundations hiding if they wanted, except that eventually, all of their issues and organizations would be found anyway, and they would be all the more vulnerable for them not having stepped up or spoken out sooner. So I think he, I think he just made a series of very powerful points about why doing this is essential, and why the cause of health and wellness in California are worth fighting for, and why they will continue to in the ways that they are.

Crystal Page 57:11
Yeah. And I think he also framed up the grace that comes with wherever your foundation is right, whether you're doing 5% in terms of giving or 7% do more, you know, but it wasn't about a spend down. It was about a spend up. And I love that.

Grant Oliphant 57:25
Yes, that should be our takeaway, spend up and speak out. Yes, good place to stop.

Grant Oliphant 57:38
This is a production of the Prebys Foundation,

Crystal Page 57:40
hosted by Grant Oliphant

Grant Oliphant 57:43
co hosted by Crystal page

Crystal Page 57:46
CO produced by Crystal page and Adam Greenfield,

Grant Oliphant 57:49
engineered by Adam Greenfield,

Crystal Page 57:53
production coordination by Tess Karesky,

Grant Oliphant 57:56
video production by Edgar Ontiveros Medina.

Crystal Page 58:00
Special thanks to the Prebys Foundation team.

Grant Oliphant 58:03
The stop and talk theme song was created by San Diego's own Mr. Lyrical groove.

Crystal Page 58:09
Download episodes at your favorite pod catcher, or visit us at prebysfdn.org.